Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-47

Name of organisation making submission: DR-47 Ontario College of Trades Industrial Electrician Trade Board

Responses to questions in submission form

Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

Public Interest is the general public which the college must ensure has consumer protection, health and safety and environmental protection.

2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

The College should serve the Public, the trades and apprentices, and the owners of these businesses, (members of the college). The Public is any person(s) that could be adversely affected by any work performed by these trades. EG. If an Electrician is upgrading a panel in a home, then the owner of the home would be the public.

3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

The College should utilize the existing Trade Boards to make recommendations and then the Board of directors make the final decisions. Major decisions should involve consultations.

4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

In some cases yes, where the trades are not compulsory this is more difficult. This is a carry-over from the MTCU and a process is in place to make a trade compulsory.

5. How should the College advance the public interest?

The college should review the list of trades that are currently listed under the College and remove the ones listed that are not trades. Then all trades that belong to the college should be required to pay the freight so to speak. Compulsory status is an excellent tool to ensure the Public is protected. Reviews should continue.

Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

SOP`s at this time do not have a huge impact on the way we conduct business in our trade, as it is too vague. As a member of the Industrial Electrician Board we have asked that it be modified and due to this review this has been placed on hold.

7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?

Yes, the core elements would affect most of our work places and some would have the peripheral elements. All would be part of the scope of the trade and should not be seperated.

8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

The more information that is in the SoP the better. Currently the training standards define the list of tasks and activities the apprentice should be trained to. The SoP should include a good description of the trade and duties performed by the particular trade, not just a couple of lines like a lot of them are.

9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

The Trade Board should be tasked with the change. Then a consultation process could be utilized and the Divisional Board could make the final decision.

10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

Comprehensive SoPs, like comprehensive legislation, could provide the College the framework to enable it to effectively carry out its functions, protecting both its members’ interest and the public’s interest.

11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

Yes after a the SoP is done properly. Other factors would also have to be considered, such as the industrial Exemption, Overlap in other trades, and the training standards in the trade.

12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

The College would not benefit from breaking the trades into this form of Compulsory as it would be impossible to enforce. If the above factors in Q11 are taken into consideration then the entire trade should be compulsory.

13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

Some trades may have similar activities in their SoP's. For example Construction and Maintenance Electrician and Industrial Electrician would have similar activities.

14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.

They could but most SoP`s are too vague.

15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

It could. This question needs more explanation.

Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

Compulsory status should be considered when the public interest could be compromised in any way. This includes Industrial settings, where the public would be the other workers, within the plant.

17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?

No the voluntary trades do not require membership and do not have enforcement. Most of these voluntary trades should become compulsory and the existing voluntary trades practitioners need to become members.

18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?


19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

The trade should not be broken up as this would be impossible to enforce and a disaster to skilled trades workers across the province and the economy.

20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

Yes this model seems to be working.

21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

The experts should be Licenced trades.

22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

Yes, the current criteria seems to be well thought out for trade classification review and apprentice ratio review.

23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?


Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

The SoP`s in Industrial Electrician trade need to be updated.

26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

Yes most do, however the core ones could become more problematic without the Industrial Exemption.

27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

The College should have a jurisdictional dispute panel.

Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

The College is faced with a daunting task considering numbers of trade classifications it has. I believe this number does not reflect the actual number of trade groups: because many of the groups, although they may be a job classification, are not actually a trade. In Canada we have a Red Seal Program and this would be a good starting point to determine whether it is a job classification or a trade. The trade should be apprenticeable and have a criteria for testing, to ensure the apprentice has met the standards for the trade. A culling of the job classification would be a good first step in ensuring the college has the ability to protect the public interest and promote apprenticeship. The College funding has been problematic from the start. Some trades have spoken against the trades based on this fact alone. The College, to function properly, will certainly require funding. If all the trades where required to become members perhaps this cost could be spread more evenly amongst the trades.