Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-20

Name of individual making submission: DR-20 Individuals on Ontario College of Trades Appliance Service Trade Board: Frank Rizzuti, John Ripley, Abdul Hamid, Robert Beerman

Responses to questions in submission form

Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

Public interest is the welfare, well being and safety of the public.

2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

The College should serve both the trades people as well as the public. Groups that make up the public are consumers, employers and trades people, including apprentices.

3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

Just as the college is currently doing - having various trade boards consisting of both employees and employers.

4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

I believe that they are, by regulating trade certifications, providing a searchable tradesperson database and having enforcement officers in the field monitoring the various trades.

5. How should the College advance the public interest?

Continue their current practices and enlarge their group of enforcement officers to better control unlicensed trades people.

Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

SoPs are a great guideline that can act as a job description for many trades, also they can be a valuable source of information for an apprentice.

7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?


8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

SoP should outline all tasks and responsibilities for the apprentice to follow and be properly trained on as well as any safety factors which may pose a risk to either the public or co workers.

9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

Reviews should be conducted by the various trade boards which have an equal amount of employees and employers.

10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

Yes SoP's are a good guideline for appreticeship training and provide enforcement with a reference to the various activities that the trades should or should not be practicing.

11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

Enforceable for some trades and enforcement for others, some trades are under TSSA regulations for which they are the authority.

12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

The compulsory activities fall upon the responsibility of the licensed trades person, providing a list to the public/workers/tradespeople would serve no benefit.

13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

Some duties normally associated with an electrician could be performed by a plumber, i.e. a plumber instaling a hot water tank - can he or she connect it to an existing circuit? some duties should overlap.

14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.

Not in my trade - but yes I can see where some overlaps could impact one trades person business. (see my example above)

15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

In certain circumstances it can pose a risk, but with proper training and enforcement the risks can be kept to a minimum.

Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

Compulsory trades are those which require a high level of skill and can pose a safety concern to the public/co-workers if not performed by a qualified person. Voluntary trades are less of a safety concern to the public/co-workers.

17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?

Some trades should be reclassified to better protect the public, but current classifications are acceptable and will protect the public's interest/safety.

18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?

Yes, all trades can have the potential of performing a hazardous task, this is where proper safety training and use of safety equipment is of the upmost importance to protect both the worker/co-worker/public.

19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

Trying to police/enforce the trades is this manner could prove to be difficult, however this would have no impact on my daily work. I can see it becoming an issue in the future for some trades if certification went to core element only.

20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

The OLRB model should be reviewed and changes made to suit the Colleges mandate.

21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

From qualified, seasoned and experienced trades people and industry specialists.

22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

Yes, the regulation has many steps and goes through the hands of experienced trades people and as it currently stands seems more than sufficient to safeguard the public interest.

23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?


Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

In my trade the SoP is not in line with TSSA regulations and therefore should be under review.

26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

I believe that disputes can arise from peripheral elements, but that would be a minor percentage.

27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

The College should be working along side the OLRB and adapt any disputes, this however would not impact my trade.

Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question