Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-13

Name of individual making submission: DR-13 Brian Olsen

Responses to questions in submission form

Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

for the safety and good of the consumer public

2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

the college should first serve the trades and represent the trades to the public

3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question

4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

I think very little, most of the charges have been in conjunction with ESA. Today the college has been self serving buy putting efforts in collecting dues.

5. How should the College advance the public interest?

1 improved training for apprentices and update training for current journeymen 2 lobby for government to bring forward regulations to have manufactures make available service and parts bulletins and tech tips to independent repair shops.

Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

NONE, our work is confined to repairs and servicing motorcycles and all aspects of. I personally feel that the term Scopes of Practice is put in by some Bay Street lawyer and is out of place in the "trades"

7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?

Depends on the trade

8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

I think this has a different answer for each trade, in my trade it should cover all the functions the apprentice is expected to be able to do, along with std safety training then the 2nd part is covered

9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

by current journeymen working in the trade

10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

I do not understand this question

11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

some common sense needs to be injected , an auto mechanic that pulls his own car into his work space on a slow day and does some of his own body work is subject to enforcement??? , or , an electrician replacing a groung bound on a water pipe has a leak due to corrosion, he replaces 1 foot of pipe, should he be fined or job stopped and a plumber called in, common sense ??

12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.


13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

an example in automotive , a body man may need in the conjunction of a body repair do something fringes into a auto tech function

14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.


15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question

Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

the number of regulations involved , ie electrician, gas fitter and the level of public safety should be compulsory trades that the consumer can see by eye is done poorly and offers no safety element such as a landscaper there fore as an example, I would place a framing carpenter compulsory and a finish carpenter voluntary

17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?


18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?


19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

yes , this would not impact on my job or business

20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question

21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

from current journeymen working in the trade

22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

No , Trade unions must be kept at arms length, they are self serving

23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?


Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

some what but in a very general way

26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

not for my trade, maybe in construction trades

27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

the college should be representing the trades and would be in conflict of interest if involved with OLRB , I see the OLBR as a referee between the unions anyway it has no impact on my trade

Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

I am not a fan of the increase in fees, but just passed it on to my customers , but I do not see any value for my money spent, the college has not, promoted the trades, improved the trades, improved apprentice training , but rather a fee collecting money monster, that no one is sure if it is government, private or union run or who it answers to. The former MOL/MCTU system had faults but could of been improved without another level of money sucking beaurocracy. The collage has too many armchair quarterbacks over too many trades. Other collages cover smaller scope of skills , here they are trying to cover hair dressers to electricians to auto repair and serving none well. A small input into the ratios, there is no formula to include the level of the apprentice, an example would be the electrical with a long apprenticeship, 5 years I think , there is no reason that a last year apprentice could not be training a first year apprentice, rather that having to have 2 more journeymen, the IBEW would likely freak out but they should not be involver anyway.