Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-11

Name of individual making submission: DR-11 Trevor Cox

Responses to questions in submission form

Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

The best interest of the people of Ontario in general

2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

The college should serve Tradespeople, employers, the general public who could be impacted by the work of trades, and customers.

3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

Consider the best interests of the broadest section of the public possible.

4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

No. Please see my answers regarding compulsory trades and SoPs

5. How should the College advance the public interest?

Carefully consider what trades should be compulsory, make sure the SoPs are up to date and emphasize consumer protection when dealing with the trades.

Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

The SoPs are very important to decide which trade works on a particular vehicle. They also "decide" whether a repair can be performed by lower paid lesser skilled labour, and therefore impact wages in the trade.

7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?


8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

I feel consideration should be given to protection of the public and worker, quality of work and skills required. Consumer protection should also be incorporated. I believe for my trade the SoP should state that all work on a vehicle must be performed by a trades person other than those items which are exempted. There is too much to list all items individually.

9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

It should be driven by a request from the trade or industry or enforcement or public. It should include input from all 4 groups. It should be publicized as much as possible. It should be decided by a neutral panel.

10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

No. The SoP for my trade is outdated and requires review. Most tradespeople have no idea that the SoPs exist. I feel there are too many exemptions to the SoP. i.e.: very expensive, complicated exhaust systems , safety issues having unlicensed persons changing springs, etc.

11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

Yes. As a compulsory trade, this is the only way of deciding what is or is not part of the trade.

12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

I feel it is easier and shorter to make all activities compulsory in my trade and then exempt certain activities. There are too many activities with risk in my trade.

13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

In my trade, this refers to an activity that could legally be performed by more than one trade. There are many areas that overlap between Truck and Coach Technician and Automotive Technician for instance. There needs to be a better understanding of who does what.

14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.

No. No one I know has any idea what the SoPs are. I had no idea about them until this review. Most trades people believe that all work must be done by a licensed trades person or vehicle owner.

15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

I believe it does. I believe many trades are voluntary that should be compulsory. I believe careful reviews of what trades are compulsory and SoPs for various trades should be done to minimize the risk.

Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

I believe risk to the public, workers, etc. needs to be the greatest factor. I believe consumer protection considerations (quality of work, etc) should also be considered.

17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?

No. Since I believe that risk of harm should be the greatest factor, it makes no sense that trades like Lift Truck Technician and Heavy Duty equipment technician should be voluntary.

18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?

Yes. I believe that most activities in my trade have a potential for harm.

19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

I believe that limiting compulsory certification is a mistake. I believe that approach would lead to even less trust in the trades, and make it harder to attract workers to a trade that already has a shortage of people.

20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

I believe this approach should be continued, but consideration should be given to increasing the size of the panels.

21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

I believe both sides should be able to call experts, and that panels members should be free to question experts.

22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

Yes, but consumer protection should also be a consideration.

23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?

For the most part, but if the SoP is outdated as ours is, then it may lead to a flawed review.

Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

No. As stated previously, there is little awareness of the SoPs.

26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

No opinion.

27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

No opinion.

Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question